Transcript Generated by AI 00:02 Hi Mark Parkinson back with Park Place and this month's Let's Talk. 00:07 And as we have had every month, once again this month, 00:10 we have a complete superstar who's been very successful in the space, 00:14 is willing to tell her story and hopefully give us some ideas that we can 00:18 actually use in our buildings as well. 00:21 We're here with none other than Jennifer Robinson, 00:23 who's the president and CEO of Sandstone. 00:25 And when you hear her story and what Sansone has accomplished, 00:28 I think you're really going to be impressed. 00:29 I want to start out and thank First Quality for sponsoring. 00:33 Let's talk First. 00:34 Quality and all the other sponsors that we have make it possible for this site to 00:38 be free without all the annoying pop up ads and all of that. 00:42 Thank you very much for quality for making this possible. 00:45 Now, if you're own or operate buildings in 00:47 North Carolina, you know Sandstone and you know Jennifer 00:51 Robinson, if you don't operate in North Carolina, 00:54 you might not know about Sandstone, but it is one of those real gem providers, 00:58 middle sized organization that just does an excellent job in the region that 01:03 they're in. 01:03 And again, that region is North Carolina where 01:07 Sandstone has 20 nursing homes, 1 assisted living facility and is 01:11 achieving remarkable results. 01:13 The reason that we're featuring Jennifer and Sandstone today is because of those 01:17 results. 01:17 So let me just give you some high level numbers here. 01:20 The overall five star score for Sandstone buildings is 3. 01:24 9 versus a national average of 2.91. 01:27 Full point above the QM comparison is 4. 2 to 3.4. 01:33 They really focus on employee satisfaction and so they have 0 agency 01:37 and very low turnover. 01:39 Their overall nursing turnover is 38% versus the national average of 46. 01:44 So RN turnover is only 35% versus the national average of 43. 01:50 And proving that investing in quality can also result in financial gains. 01:55 Their quality mix is amazing. 01:56 They have a massive amount of post acute residents, both part A and managed care. 02:01 They're doing really, really well. 02:04 Jennifer, we're thrilled that you're here with us 02:06 today to talk about your background and how Sandstone has achieved these 02:10 remarkable results. 02:11 So welcome to Park Place. 02:13 Thank you, Mark, for having me. 02:15 And you know, I want to start out by saying that when 02:18 we approached you, you talked about how, you know, you're a servant leader. 02:22 You're not that comfortable and talking about yourself. 02:25 Tell us a little bit about your reluctance to do this. 02:28 Yeah, I think for, for me, Mark, some of the interviews that I do and you 02:34 know, my background having come straight into 02:38 the working field as a, as APCAA personal care assistant early on, 02:44 I, I had a child in high school and so 02:47 college was not really the option for me and I went straight to work and from high 02:54 school. 02:55 And so I started as APCA, which is very similar to ACNA. 02:59 And throughout my adulthood, I, I've grown into the role that I'm in 03:05 today. 03:06 And by doing so, I think that that in itself seems to be 03:11 sensational to some people or just people are admirable of it. 03:17 And so they want to focus on that. 03:20 And my biggest concern is that our success as a company and my success, 03:24 it doesn't come from from me. 03:26 It comes from the wonderful people that work under me and the people who work 03:31 every day, day in and day out for our company and 03:33 for the residents that we serve. 03:35 So it's really important to me that I focus on them and and not so much myself 03:40 when I do interviews. 03:43 Well, I mean, it's great. 03:44 It's great that you feel that way. 03:45 And I certainly admire your servant leadership. 03:48 But today you're stuck. 03:49 You're stuck with me. 03:50 And we're going to talk about you because I know you've got such a compelling 03:54 background and people want to know about that and they want to know how you've 03:58 achieved what you've achieved. 04:00 So you've already kind of given us a little glimpse here. 04:03 You started out as a young mom, I think you were 15 years old and your 04:07 first was as a PCA in a nursing home. 04:10 So just talk a little bit about that initial work that you did. 04:13 Yeah. 04:14 When I graduated from high school, I grew up in a small town in North 04:18 Carolina and there was a, a state operated facility there for the 04:22 developmentally disabled. 04:25 And as we today are always looking for Cnas, 04:27 they too were always looking for personal care assistants. 04:32 So, so I, I started that job and that was my first 04:36 real experience in, in being a caretaker, but I absolutely loved it. 04:42 It was very hard work, but it, it, I felt it gave me some purpose and, 04:48 and I was really thrilled to do that job. 04:52 But eventually I kind of moved on and went into the insurance preferred 04:57 provider PPO and did some work there. 05:00 And I realized pretty quickly that I missed being a caretaker and nurturer and 05:05 a girlfriend of mine that I went to high school with. 05:09 She was a licensed nursing home administrator at the time, 05:13 I think we were in early 20s and she asked if I wanted to come be a dietary 05:18 manager and something I would have never imagined, but I did. 05:22 And and that's where I began my my real career in long term care and skilled 05:27 nursing was as a dietary manager. 05:30 Great. 05:31 So I mean, I think it's so compelling that you 05:34 started out as a PCACNA and a number of the industry leaders that we have today 05:39 had had that same modest beginning. 05:42 I think it's also probably been very helpful as you've taken on additional 05:46 responsibilities to understand, you know, what that base core, 05:49 really important job is. 05:52 I know that then in in 2011, really a life changing thing because you 05:56 joined Sandstone. 05:58 So tell us about that and your journey with Sandstone to becoming the president 06:02 and CEO. 06:03 Yeah, I, I met the owner of Sandstone in North 06:06 Carolina, Anyone who's an administrator and 06:10 training program, you have to go through some classes and 06:14 he happened to be teaching the finance class for the administrators in training. 06:19 And I was currently doing an administrator in training program with my 06:24 previous company and I was living kind of on the other side of North Carolina. 06:29 And, and I remember telling Mr. 06:31 Springer, our owner, if my current boss ever leaves me, 06:34 I'm going to give you a call, but I'll never leave him. 06:38 I'm a pretty loyal, loyal person for those who who do for me 06:43 as as as would be expected, I hope. 06:46 But so sure enough, within a couple weeks after meeting Mr. 06:51 Springer and him teaching my class, there were some changes in the 06:55 organization that I was with. 06:56 And I, I still had several months remaining in 06:59 my administrator and training program. 07:02 So I called Mr. 07:04 Springer, he had from his card he had given us in 07:07 class. 07:08 And that was when my, my story began with Sandstone was 07:12 finishing up my administrator and training program with him. 07:17 And then I'm going to Fast forward 10 years, 10 years later, 2021, 07:21 you became the president and CEO and you've now held that position for four 07:26 years. 07:27 Just a, a little bit of work in between there, 07:30 but just just a little bit. 07:32 I'm sure there was a lot that happened and, and the, 07:34 and the data that you had when you were 15. 07:36 How is she doing now? 07:38 She's doing great. 07:39 She was a school teacher, graduated from East Carolina University, 07:42 a special Ed teacher for many years here in North Carolina. 07:45 And she recently started working for our company at one of our skilled nursing 07:51 homes as a social worker. 07:53 And she found very quickly, it started as kind of a summer job for 07:57 her to see if she liked the industry, loved it, 08:00 ended up leaving teaching and she's a social worker at one of our buildings. 08:06 And hopefully one day I will do a training and and become a licensed 08:10 administrator herself. 08:11 She definitely has the skill. 08:13 Well, one day maybe she'll be the CEO of the 08:16 place maybe. 08:19 So let's get to the important part of how you, 08:22 how has Sandstone achieved this success? 08:25 So talked about all of the numbers, amazing clinical outcomes, 08:29 great financial outcomes. 08:31 You and I've talked about this a fair amount operation for this segment and it 08:36 sounds like you guys have really invested in quality and the first thing I wanted 08:40 you to talk about is your investment in this the building support and the cluster 08:45 model that you've developed. 08:47 Can you talk about those investments? 08:49 Yeah. 08:50 Many years ago, we, we always have this saying it's 08:54 everything matters. 08:55 And we're, we're very serious about it. 08:58 It's everything matters and do the right thing for the human, 09:01 for another human being. 09:03 But we, we recognize that our buildings, our administrators need support. 09:11 And so we decided at that point in time that we felt it was worth the overhead 09:18 investment to do small regions with 4-5 buildings, 09:22 but mostly 4 buildings in a region and provide those regions with a full team of 09:29 support. 09:30 So each of their regions, we have 20 locations, 09:34 we have 55 regions in each location has an operator, 09:39 a licensed nursing home operator, it has AMDS nurse clinical reinforcement, 09:46 it has a clinical nurse and a regional business office manager. 09:52 And most of the regions have what we call a hospital liaison that just assist with 09:57 communicating through the hospitals and helping the buildings. 10:02 Yeah, that's that's a reason support make sure 10:05 that's fine. 10:06 So for just for four buildings, you've got full time person in each of 10:11 those different categories. 10:14 That's correct. 10:15 And explain how that's helpful to the buildings. 10:17 What have you how have what have you seen that create? 10:21 Yeah, it's definitely this. 10:22 These regional teams they're they're there for support there. 10:27 No one reports directly to them as far as the MD's at the building, 10:31 reports to the administrator, business office at the building, 10:35 reports to the administrator. 10:38 Our administrators are expected to operate their buildings, 10:42 but they also with that are responsible for further outcomes. 10:47 So we wanted them to have resources, people to provide the assistance in the 10:53 specialized training. 10:56 And in reality, if you think about it, a regional MD's coordinator in each 11:01 region, they're able to help and assist and train 11:05 the MD's coordinators to ensure that you're capturing all the revenue that you 11:10 should based on the service that you're delivering. 11:14 And, and that in itself assist with, with the overall revenue for that extra, 11:20 that extra staff member and the, and the overheads. 11:25 That's great. 11:26 The second area that we talked about make a lot of investment is, is in employees. 11:32 Talk about some of the investments that you make in employees. 11:34 It sounds like it starts from the beginning with onboarding. 11:37 Yeah, I after our discussion last week, I started kind of thinking a little bit 11:43 more and we financially invest in employees and we have onboarding programs, 11:49 but what came to me is that we invest in their professional and I, 11:54 I don't know that I recognized how much till I, 11:58 I looked at some metrics over the past couple days. 12:02 But yeah, our onboarding program starts with every 12:06 new employee gets a welcome box with a personalized letter from me thanking them 12:12 for joining our company. 12:14 I think there are so many other companies that CNAA Nurse could join and it's very 12:19 important to me that they chose our company and I want them to know not only 12:25 that we're grateful they chose us, but we look forward to working with them 12:30 for many years and that we're available at any time should they need to call or 12:35 have a question. 12:36 But the administrators do follow-ups with with new employees. 12:41 We have a staff member that is the director of employee enrichment, 12:47 retention, recruitment enrichment and she helps and 12:52 assist with with these new employees. 12:56 They all receive surveys just we want to, we want to address any issues as quickly 13:04 as possible. 13:06 And so with those surveys, receive an e-mail with the survey 13:11 responses, chief operating officer, he receives the emails. 13:16 And so we're able to kind of keep a, a thumb on the, the pace of, 13:22 of the facilities and the employee excitement with, with becoming a new. 13:28 I mean, one of the things that was impressed by 13:31 is you're surveying these new employees at 7 days, 30 days, 60 days and 90 days. 13:37 So you know exactly how they're feeling about things all through the they made it 13:42 to her if you need a survey, but you can certainly tell if somebody's 13:47 not happy and there needs to be an intention. 13:50 Is it do you you've got zero agency. 13:53 You think this is a a part of that, that the focus that you have on these 13:56 employees? 13:57 Yeah, I think that it's a huge, the zero agency comes from us making sure 14:03 our staff know they're appreciated, recognizing them, 14:08 providing them with for professional growth and just as a culture for our 14:14 company. 14:15 It's not just the employee, but you have to think about the employees 14:19 families and making sure that the employees families know we care just as 14:24 much about them because they are the ones sacrificing while their loved ones are 14:29 are working a very, very hard job. 14:32 Yeah, a lot of people say, oh, we do that too. 14:36 We also do things for our employees. 14:38 But I think the difference is talking to the really successful groups like yours, 14:43 you're doing this at a level that's not normal. 14:46 You know, somebody might normally have a few $100 14:49 or maybe they're lucky, 500 or $1000 for employee benefits a 14:53 month. 14:54 Talk about some of the things that you guys are doing. 14:55 You're doing some really elaborate things. 14:57 Yeah. 14:58 When the pandemic first started, we decided very quickly that we needed to 15:04 allocate a couple $1,000, 000 a year at least towards just employee 15:09 benefits. 15:10 And these benefits are simple things. 15:13 We are based in North Carolina, which makes it easy for us to kind of 15:18 invest in entertainment. 15:20 We have the Panthers, we have the Hornets, we have concerts. 15:23 And So what we've done is invested in those. 15:26 And our staff actually get to come to football games. 15:30 They go to basketball games, they go to hockey games in Raleigh. 15:35 And sometimes those games or those concerts are something they may not have 15:41 had the opportunity to experience without us providing it for them, 15:46 whether it be a financial reason or or something else. 15:50 But they they seem to be extremely grateful. 15:53 And it's, it's very, it's, it's rewarding to watch the camaraderie 15:58 that you see when, when all the employees are there at those 16:02 events together outside of work, but still enjoying each other. 16:06 They each bring a guest with them. 16:09 We allow them to bring their spouse, their child. 16:12 We see a lot of the young kids come to the circus and things of that nature. 16:17 So it, it really brings me joy to, to see the families come with the staff. 16:23 You have a robust college, they keep like scholarships for them to 16:28 get nursing you, you give hams at, at Christmas, turkeys at Thanksgiving. 16:33 And again, people say, oh, I'm doing that too. 16:35 But it's you could do the simple math. 16:37 If you have 20 buildings and you're spending $2,000,000, you're spending $100, 16:40 000 a building. 16:41 And you know, most people are spending probably less 16:44 than 10,000. 16:45 Yeah, I'd, I'd venture to say we spend more than 16:48 that Mark. 16:49 But well, I know we do, but from our from the management team, 16:53 but the buildings also. 16:54 So the administrators have the autonomy and they have budgets to do special 16:58 things for their staff every month. 17:00 And it's, it's a few $1000 a month. 17:02 But we want them to feed their staff. 17:06 We want them to, to bring in some entertainment for their 17:09 staff and, and just do special things for them that, 17:13 that make them feel appreciated. 17:15 So the turkeys and the hams, I think that comes from my upbringing. 17:21 You know, as I'm, I'm trying to grow my career and my 17:24 husband works and worked in manufacturing and we're raising three children and, 17:30 and sometimes a Turkey, you know, you, you didn't have enough money to go buy a 17:35 big Turkey or a big ham or those were challenges and my husband's work would 17:41 provide turkeys. 17:42 And so those kind of things are just, it's our, it's our culture. 17:46 And I think it may have started with me, but over the years, 17:52 our leadership is very like minded. 17:55 And, and it's just the, it's how we are, you know, and I know people say, oh, 18:00 I can't afford to spend $100, 000 a year on a building on, 18:04 on these kind of things or more. 18:07 But the truth is when you look at employee turnover and the cost of losing 18:11 ACNA or the cost of losing an RN, if you can create the kind of retention 18:15 that you've created, this, this more than pays for itself. 18:19 A building and agency could easily spend $100,000 in a month if you're not careful. 18:25 I mean, so in itself agency, it's so expensive. 18:31 And, you know, it was just so important to to me, 18:36 to to my team, to our owner that we we try not to to we 18:41 would call it a cancer. 18:43 I think that's terrible to say. 18:45 But, you know, we just felt like once agency was in the 18:49 building, it would be extremely hard to stop it. 18:53 So, yeah. 18:54 OK. 18:54 The third I want to talk about a little bit is leadership. 18:58 You spend a lot of time continuing to train and work with your administrators 19:04 and the Dons. 19:05 Tell us a little bit about that. 19:07 Yeah, we have our administrators and and our 19:10 owners originally they started out doing this when we were just four buildings. 19:15 So our administrators come to the Home Office, 19:18 which is in Western North Carolina once a month. 19:21 They're usually there for a few days, but during that time they have one-on-one 19:28 operations reviews with sometimes myself, but it's always our Chief Operating 19:34 officer and it's not always just a financial review. 19:38 It's called an operations review. 19:40 And it's not just financial, it's, it's really that one-on-one time to talk 19:44 about maybe a problem they're having or setting a goal. 19:48 I know David Fardulas, our chief operating officer, 19:51 he's great about just having them set one goal for the next month. 19:55 What are you going to achieve? 19:56 And, and when they come back the next month, 19:58 they're looking at, well, what was your goal? 20:00 Did you achieve it or you know, so it's it's that intimate time that they 20:04 have with some. 20:05 Some of their senior leadership to ask the questions and for us to mentor them. 20:11 They also do this. 20:13 They have an accounts receivables meeting where they have that one-on-one. 20:16 But one day every month we when we build this huge kind of auditorium, 20:21 it's kind of like a lecture hall and with the the kind of stadium seating, 20:26 but we're all in this room together. 20:29 We bring people in to do education for them. 20:33 We sometimes provide the education and it's just a time for them to to further, 20:39 further their knowledge and their skill set. 20:43 I mean that's remark. 20:45 Many companies don't bring their leaders together at all. 20:47 Others do it maybe once a year and you're doing it all throughout the year and it's 20:52 expensive, I get it. 20:53 But I think it's an investment. 20:55 One year we started doing it quarterly and we realized very quickly that it was 21:01 worth every bit of their the time out of the building for the administrators, 21:06 the cost to get them to Western North Carolina from Eastern North Carolina. 21:12 We saw very quickly that the outcomes were much better when we're meeting with 21:17 them on a monthly basis. 21:20 Well, Jennifer, your results are remarkable. 21:22 I'm going to talk a little bit about your leadership philosophy. 21:25 So we've talked about servant leadership. 21:27 What, what, what, what is the leadership style or who are 21:30 the leaders that you admire? 21:31 What, what do they exhibit the most? 21:33 You know, I think we, I always say a leader is someone who will 21:37 take you somewhere that you would never would have went without their, 21:42 their leadership, their mentoring. 21:45 And I think 2 of my leaders immediately come to mind. 21:49 And that's the owner of our company now and the previous, 21:53 my previous boss with the previous organization. 21:56 You know, they those are leaders that I admire 22:00 because they give you the resources you need, 22:03 they provide you with the mentoring and they are rewarded of watching your growth. 22:10 And that for me is one of the things that just brings me the most joy is watching, 22:17 watching my staff grow professionally. 22:20 I mean, I hear I was a high school mother and I 22:24 was CEO of a company today and and that didn't happen without having leaders who 22:31 really invested in watching me grow and watching me thrive. 22:36 And so I was looking at some statistics marked for us and we have 38 employees 22:42 who are either administrators, directors of nursing or work in our Home 22:47 Office support teams that have grown within our organization. 22:53 I nine of our administrators out of 20 have been, they did their AIT, 22:58 they started in our organization at a lower level and we have promoted them, 23:04 put them through AIT and now they're licensed administrators. 23:09 So it's just, it's something that I admired, 23:12 somebody did that for me and it's, it's a goal of myself and all my 23:18 leadership to do that for others. 23:22 One final question. 23:23 There are a lot of providers out here that want to get better. 23:27 They're trying to improve their quality outcomes, 23:29 but they're struggling and they want to get better, but they just, 23:33 they don't know what to do What, what, what is your advice to somebody in that 23:37 situation? 23:40 I the, the biggest thing is you've got to focus 23:43 on one thing at a time. 23:47 Pick something, set a goal, get a plan. 23:50 But for me I think the most important thing is investing in your staff and 23:55 including them. 23:57 And you cannot make a change in the overall quality of care without involving 24:04 and engaging the, the line level staff. 24:08 They're the ones who are going to make the difference. 24:11 They're the ones who are are working and providing that customer service directly 24:17 to the resident that are really going to have the impact. 24:20 So when I say that, I say invest in your line level stuff, 24:25 make sure they have the resources they need and, and just one thing at a time. 24:32 They become overwhelmed if you try and fix too many things at one time, 24:36 but set some goals one at a time and get them involved and let them know what 24:40 you're working on and that you need their help and their engagement. 24:45 Jennifer, thank you so much for your time today. 24:47 I mean, it's, it's inspiring on multiple levels. 24:49 First, on a personal level, to be able to have the humble beginnings 24:54 that you had and now to be the president, CEO of a major organization is inspiring, 24:59 but the results of what your Samsung has achieved are inspiring. 25:05 Once you get above a few buildings, it gets really hard to provide great care, 25:11 and to do this in 20 buildings day in and day out is amazing. 25:15 But I think after listening to your strategies, 25:17 it becomes very clear how it's possible. 25:20 So I want to thank all of you for joining this segment of Let's Talk. 25:23 Again, I want to thank First Quality for its 25:25 sponsorship. 25:25 We hope that you heard some things today that you can use in your buildings, 25:28 and we appreciate your support of Park Place. 25:30 Thank you.
